As a comedian and media personality, Em Rusciano has made a career out of being frank and relatable, but a deeply personal new podcast will show her “unmasked” side: a 45-year-old woman living with ADHD, autism and menopause, and a mother of three neurodivergent children.
Joined by daughters Marchella and Odette for a photo shoot, Rusciano opens up to Stellar’s podcast Something To Talk About about fronting up, facing her worst fears and her “wild and fun” family project.
You describe your new podcast Anomalous as a love letter to the neurodivergent community and a road map for neurotypical people. You were diagnosed with autism at 43, and ADHD a year earlier – moments that were presumably the catalyst for this series?
“Absolutely. Often when I’m going through things, I look around to find information, solace, community. When I was diagnosed with ADHD, in my mind the prototype for that was the hyperactive 10-year-old white boy. I was a chronically exhausted 42-year-old mother of three [to Marchella, 22, Odette, 17, and Elio, 4, with her husband, performance coach Scott Barrow]. So when I got the diagnosis, it was wild. I began looking for resources and because I don’t have great executive function, I found it overwhelming; it was like my brain was fraying and I was trying to grab all the ends to tether them to something solid. I couldn’t find one resource that would explain it to me in a way that wasn’t terrifying or scientific.
“Fast forward to me giving the National Press Club address about my ADHD [in 2022]. I know a lot of women and AFAB [assigned female at birth] saw themselves in me and started questioning: do I need a diagnosis? I kind of left everyone hanging, so Anomalous is my follow-up. It’s the ‘What do I do now?’ podcast for people who do suspect they’re neurodivergent, or who have been newly diagnosed and aren’t sure what the next step is, or the people who want to let the neurotypical people in their life know what’s going on for them.”
Listen to the full interview on Stellar’s podcast Something To Talk About:
It is wild how far we’ve come in terms of realising that ADHD isn’t just about those “naughty and inattentive boys at school”.
“The traditional focus has been hyperactivity in school settings; most females have the inattentive type. They’re the quiet girls in the corner, the daydreamers. They might be accused of being lazy or disorganised. And the squeaky wheel gets the most grease, so if the little boys are jumping up and down in the classroom, a symptom recognition bias begins to manifest, and it’s years and years of [this] working against girls and AFAB who don’t present in that manner. This breaks my heart.
“There’s a generation of us, and our mothers, who were missed. As a result, there are so many occurrences of anxiety and depression and OCD. If it’s caught early enough and you’re given the right support, amazing things can happen. But you get to 40, burnt out, in total overwhelm, everything is on top of you and you look back at the trail, and your hormones [are] going haywire because perimenopause has started. I couldn’t help but think, God, if this had been caught, so much of the destruction that did happen might not have happened.
“But on the flip side, I’m really brave with my career and myself, because I have a lack of dopamine, so it’s the double-edged sword. This late diagnosis [is] because there’s finally a desperate correction of the chronic, previously underdiagnosed condition that is ADHD. Apparently, you know, I invented ADHD – if you believe some of the commenters after the Press Club. But we’re up against decades of systemic symptom recognition bias, and to undo that, now we can gather en masse online and compare notes and realise the different variations of presentations. I know it’s given people the ability to understand it. Whereas in the past – (quips) this is going to shock you! – female health doesn’t get a lot of coverage.
“Now we can tell our stories and talk about it. When people call it a fad or a trend, I think, God, there are so many other fads I’d pick if I was going to get on board with a fad. I don’t know if it would be chronic executive function disorder.”
Among other high-profile people who have gone public with their own ADHD diagnosis is Abbie Chatfield, who told Stellar last year what a mentor you’ve been. Does that help strengthen your resolve?
“Abbie is fantastic. I think she’s magnificent and brave but I know the toll. When she started talking about her diagnosis, I viscerally felt it because I know what commercial radio demands of you and also what a new diagnosis of ADHD demands of you and those two things should be nowhere near each other.
“But [it’s] not just famous women. I get contacted by women everywhere, saying, you’ve emboldened me or empowered me to advocate for myself, which is so incredibly humbling. But also, I have three neurodivergent children. I have an autistic son with high support needs. I can see how this world is set up against them, and I want to be a part of changing attitudes and cultural discussions around neurodivergence.
“So that’s what keeps me going. Every time I’m front-facing with my autism and ADHD, I cop it. But I have to keep doing it because eventually people like me will stop copping it. Every time I talk about it, I get, ‘You’re not autistic enough. You’re not disabled enough. She’s faking it. She’s doing it for attention.’ It’s brutal, but if I don’t keep fronting up, the attitudes never change.”
There was an instance last year where a comedian did accuse you of faking your autism diagnosis, after you spoke out about the sensory space at Marvel Stadium in Melbourne. At the time, you were praised for being very gracious in your response. It must sting, though, being accused of faking a diagnosis?
“It’s such a wild thing to accuse someone of. I took to carrying around my diagnostic report in hardcopy and digital, that’s how upsetting it was. I didn’t get out of bed for a month. As a comedian, I’m pretty brave in covering the hard stuff. I’ve done shows about losing a baby, my marriage breaking down, being called a diva, but this was really personal because those other things were tangible, and this is an invisible disability.
“It was my worst fear. It really took me out and down. It made me not want to continue talking about it, but it’s who I am; to shut that part off would be doing 10-year-old Em a disservice, so I spent many months picking myself up. Anomalous was put on the backburner. And then I got over myself and realised that I don’t need the validation. People are going to choose to not believe me or think badly of me and that’s out of my control; my greater purpose for making the podcast and doing the live stand-ups and being so front-facing with my disabilities is so people don’t have to ever feel how I felt that day when I read what that person said.”
Your podcast has been a bit of a family project with your three children, who are neurodivergent. What role have they played?
“Having them involved was really important because I wanted people to see that side of me. Oftentimes you’ll see me all guns blazing on stage or with my other podcast [Rusciano co-hosts weekly news and pop culture podcast Emsolation with screen writer Michael Lucas], but this was me unmasked at home. I live in a household of very blunt, very sensitive people, so it’s wild and fun to document that we are all divergent. This project, I’m so proud of it. It’s like nothing I’ve ever made before.”
If someone doesn’t have anyone in their family or circle – as far as they know – who is neurodivergent, and they want to understand better what it’s like living in a household like yours, can you spell out what an average day – if I can even use the word “average” (laughs) – looks like?
“It depends how and where we are in our neurodivergent journey, and how much stimulus we’ve all taken in. So every day is different. I live in the paradoxical hell of having ADHD and autism. So I crave structure and routine, but I’m unable to maintain structure and routine. It’s really this light and dark battle between my ADHD and my autism. We do have routines, which we kind of swing off like monkeys, if that makes sense. But the best part about being in my family is just the grace and the space that we hold for and give each other.”
Would you consider adding politics to your résumé? Could we start lobbying for you to become Australia’s inaugural Minister for Disability?
“Absolutely not. I want no part of that business. You have to listen to other people’s opinions, be somewhat measured, appear in control of your emotions. I have none of those qualities. I also think being a politician makes you impotent. You can be powerful and flourish without fear of keeping people wanting to vote for you. I just think about the poor PR person who would have to try to control my narrative. I wouldn’t wish that upon anyone.
“The biggest punk-rock act I can perform is to keep showing up as myself, making things that challenge and trying to push that needle forward on the way conversations are happening around neurodivergence. It’s sad that me turning up as a 45-year-old disabled woman, loudly and proudly, is a renegade act, so I will continue to do that. That has far more reaching power than me trying to get elected. That would be a mess.”
Your upcoming national tour, Outgrown, will be your first in some time. Breaking taboos has always been a part of your comedy – can we expect a little bit of all of what we’ve talked about, menopause included, when Outgrown hits the stage later this year?
“Yeah. The last five years have been scorched earth for me. I gave birth, then we had the lockdowns [Rusciano lives in Melbourne], then the ADHD diagnosis, then the autism diagnosis, then I found out I was in hardcore menopause very early, like the plane had crashed into the cliff. I had no warning.
“I’ve learnt so much. Every year felt like there’s a bushfire and the forest has to be burned to the ground for new growth to come. But what has emerged is a better, stronger regrowth. And I hope that I continue outgrowing myself till I take my last breath. That’s how we get better as humans. That’s how the world gets better.”
Anomalous is available from tomorrow, wherever you get your podcasts. See the full shoot with Em inside Stellar and listen to Stellar’s podcast Something To Talk About with Em Rusciano below:
Originally published as Em Rusciano: ‘It took me down. I didn’t get out of bed for a month’